The folks over at The Gradebook education news blog analyzed statewide test scores and came up with an ugly little fact concerning the science FCAT:
Meanwhile, not a single black student in the entire state scored a Level 5 on the science FCAT, at any grade level. Let us repeat that: Not one. In the entire state. On any grade level.
Discuss.
All right, I’ll step up and make a comment. I don’t have enough information to know whether any problem exists. Some students scored level 5, but most don’t. No one is claiming that there’s any bias in the test. So the results are what they are. Next year may be different. In other words, nothing to see here, folks. Move along now.
Well, I don’t think The Gradebook was looking at test bias, but rather math and science education for minorities overall. And keep in mind we are not just talking about high school students. This discovery was for all tested grade levels. Are Florida public schools not reaching minorities in science?
Of course, there are all sorts of problems with the test itself that may influence minorities’ test scores (such as, it counts for the schools’ grades, but doesn’t count for anything for students). So, the science FCAT may not be the most reliable measure of subject performance.
When I saw your post I was concerned about something else, which seems not to be an issue.
My point was that this isn’t 1959, it’s 50 years later. The dialogue we’d be having back then, the explanations, excuses, accusations — that’s all behind us. Or it should be, because much has changed in 50 years, and those old debates aren’t relevant today. I don’t want to get bogged down in our grandparents’ issues. We might as well be talking about women’s suffrage.
I think we should take Ron’s result at face value: African-American and Hispanic students are not achieving at a high level in either math or science in Florida’s schools. As a result, it is considerably more difficult for students in these groups to enter careers in engineering or the physical sciences. And this isn’t just a Florida problem – NAEP results demonstrate that this is a nationwide problem.
I see the results every day in my job as a physics professor. American universities graduate about 1200 physics Ph.D.’s per year. About half of those are American citizens. Only 11 are African-American. A tremendous amount of effort has been invested by colleagues of mine around the nation in recruiting African-American and Hispanic students into physics at the undergraduate and graduate levels, but until the problems at the K-12 level are addressed there will be no way to achieve equity.
I am less familiar with the numbers in the engineering profession, but I’ve been teaching introductory physics to science majors for 23 years. I can tell you from my personal experience that the situation is dire.
So PatrickHenry, there is lots to see here, and it’s not test bias. Next year will not be different unless something dramatic is done. But first we have to agree there is a serious problem. We are essentially excluding a large fraction of our nation’s population from the most important professions of the future. That is economic lunacy.
PDC Says:
My point (not skillfully made) is that “we” are NOT excluding anyone. You certainly aren’t. It’s individual students who are, by their own actions, excluding themselves.
I agree that we need more scientists and engineers. I don’t care if all of them are female Seminoles, or if none are. We need good teachers, and we need kids to get good educations. That’s the whole ball o’ wax. Fifty years ago we had some changes to make, but today I think that racial surveys are a waste of time.
OK this is a start toward having some data. Next, the scores must be broken down by all levels, not just level 5, and by economic status. If you leave out this factor which is well known to be important then you automatically exaggerate the influence of other factors.
What? You can’t get the economic data? Then use a proxy for it: neighborhoods. If you can’t even do that, then realize your analysis is at least half blind.
Hi Pete,
I don’t know how to dig out the FCAT info you’re describing, but there is such a breakout in the NAEP scores. The “advanced” category in NAEP probably has some correlation to Level 5 in FCAT. I’m just starting to dig through all that, but I’ve looked at bit at the 2007 8th grade math scores. The report for this is at
http://nces.ed.gov/nationsreportcard/pdf/main2007/2007494_3.pdf
Look at page 53. As you say, it demonstrates how important economic circumstances are.
A more general comment: Yes, cultural circumstances are very important. Having a physics professor for a dad and an attorney for a mom made (and continues to make) a big difference to my kids in their educational achievement. In general, kids coming from families where the parents have not attended college are at a significant disadvantage. So the question is, What do we do about it? Nothing? Or should we do something to compensate for these kids’ backgrounds? I’d argue it makes economic sense for society to invest additional resources in getting these kids up to speed in math and science.
Thanks. Now that the importance of family economics is agreed, on the other side there is something not easily compensated for. Here’s a discussion.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/8/5/762110/-We-knew,-and-we-are-watching.-Sadly.
I agree that there is a cultural issue here and that we as a society place more importance on sports and other activities than we do on learning.
I agree with PDC that we should do something to compensate for this cultural void. Removing the FCAT would be a good start.
Jonathan Smith Says:
That’s exactly what the school system should be doing. But it’s not. It’s difficult to override the culture in which a kid is raised. Maybe more counseling, maybe other efforts to inspire kids to rise above their circumstances. I donno what’s to be done. Some people don’t want to be motivated.
There also is a paucity of minority role models in science. Luckily we have Neil Degrasse Tyson and his new Nova show that is quite palatable to kids. As mentioned before, graduate students in our labs come mostly from Asia, and the only black student I’ve had was from Africa (she’s going to be a great role model for young black women).
There are plenty of minority-targeted opportunities to bring these students into labs and into science, but not a lot of them stay. To make matters worse there are plenty of visible people (like Oprah) that espouse anti-scientific ideas.
my two cents.
Patric Henry, Yeah, it’s the culture. White culture.
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/8/4/761985/-Obama-Gets-30-Death-Threats-Day-Needs-2x-More-Agents-
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/8/5/762110/-We-knew,-and-we-are-watching.-Sadly.
Some of your remarks about “some people” are racist. No, don’t go ballistic. Think about it.
One thing we can all do is confront racism and help others with consciousness-raising.
OK, how about this. Let’s pay math and science teachers who work in Title 1 schools an extra $10,000 per year. They can keep the higher paying job in the Title 1 school as long as it can be demonstrated that their students are performing above the norm for the school. If the teacher’s students are not performing above the norm for the school, the teacher is “demoted” to a non-Title 1 school (that is a school with more affluent students). That would be a way of attracting some of the best teachers to school assignments that would otherwise be unattractive.
The high school in my district scored terribly in science, math, and reading. It has been a D school for two of the past three years. I call it ruralism. In a couple of weeks, I get custody of my 9th grade twins for the next school year, and I’ll probably home-school them. I’m so shocked about the district’s attitude that I started a blog — it was just me sorting through my first encounter with a genuine school-board feifdom, and it attracted comments from one or two “fringe cases.” Then this morning, the local newspaper ran a piece by an opinion column writer — locally famous — who tried to be humorous about “a vicious cycle of endless classes.” http://www.desotocountyschools.blogspot.com
There is one more factor to consider with the FCAT science test. It doesn’t count toward graduation (for the 11th graders who take it) and the kids know that.
There is also the issue of role models at school. Minority science teachers are fairly rare. I think my school district has very few in our 8 middle schools – we had two very good ones that come to Professional development but the second one is now an administrator. So most of these kids are taught by white teachers and their cultural sensitivities and understandings will vary. To make if more complicated I find most of my minority girls work much harder than the boys. I went and looked at the excel sheet on those scores and the percent scoring that high is low overall but of course the Asian students lead the way dramatically in both 5s and 4s. It would be interesting to see the scores by gender as well. I also agree very much about sports being more important than academics in our culture. I guess I think we need to make science more appealing to kids – especially in elementary and middle school where attitudes form, and academic achievement more rewarded throughout the system. And as a science geek that just seems so easy to me! 😉 Now there I bought into a cultural stereotype! 😉 we can as an organization “glamorize” science with activities like Brandon’s stick figure contest and the prizes. Just try to show how creative and exciting science can be.
This is tough when you have principals who are former coaches, but that is changing also as I see more women getting those jobs. Another words the school culture probably has to change first and we need to work on the parents as well. Has anyone read Outliers? I have just heard him speak but he connects success and culture in some interesting ways. Its on my reading list.
Pete Dunkelberg Says:
I’ve thought about it. I’m outta here.
The number one thing that will help any student is parental involvement. This is regardless of race, culture, income, religion, or any other factor.
If you can’t engage the parents, you can’t engage the students, period. Having parents that care about grades, who put in extra effort to help with homework or to schedule conferences with teachers will do more than any social program that one could put in place.
What if the parents can’t help with the homework? What then?
We also know that first-rate teachers are critical. You can’t make a nanometer of progress without them.
Then the parents either need to learn the material, or need to provide someone who can help. Ultimately, the responsibility of education rests on the parents and the parents alone. Public schools can certainly help to ease this burden, and as a society we see value in providing education to everyone. However, public schools are a tool, and not the complete means to that end.
Our job as citizens is to push for the highest and best standards on education that we can. However, standards and school can only go so far. Students must have the will to learn, and that must be instilled in them by their parents.
So students can’t learn chemistry, physics and calculus unless their parents know chemistry, physics and calculus? That works in my household…but is that really what you want?
If the parents lack the requisite knowledge, then they either need to learn the material, or provide someone who knows the material. What is taught in schools isn’t so difficult to grasp, especially if parents get in the habit of helping their children with homework.
Ultimately, education of children is the parent’s responsibility. Children whose parents are involved in the school and who help them with homework tend to do far better in school than other children, despite any social programs to the contrary. Additional social programs may help, but they do not absolve parents of their solemn responsibility to be involved with the education of their children.