This entry was posted
on Friday, May 2nd, 2008 at 6:04 pm and is filed under "Academic Freedom" bills '08.
You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed.
Both comments and pings are currently closed.
This is actually a win for education in Florida and we should not forget this. While us old folk celebrate, it is the next generation of science students who are the real winners. We just had to pinch hit on their behalf. Me, I’d like to thank Brandon for keeping this on the front pages and getting our word out. I’d also like to thank Joe Wolf for his leadership and willingness to drive the extra mile to defeat this legislation along with all the other members. We can’t rest, but we can all have a toast to this victory.
My personal thanks to all the members of FCS and the NCSE who have all worked so hard for this.
I would also thank all the supporting partners (including my own) who did not complain about our trips to Orlando and Tallahassee.
Don’t make me ban all you noodley folks for pushing your saucy religion around here. I’m keeping an eye on you folks.
I am heading out on a date with my wife and then later I have to see if the Celtics can manage to pull off a road victory. So a press release will have to wait for now.
Thanks for all the thanks, folks. But I just happened to be the more visible FSC member is all. All the FCS folks have been real good butt kickers. And my hat is off to all of you blog readers who heeded the call to make phone calls, send letters, and write emails.
Not to be a downer here, but the bills dying like they did had much more to do with good ol fashioned politics than anything FCS did. We still played a role, but we simply dodged the bullet here. We need to be ready for the next fight, which likely come sooner than later.
oh, he’ll be back with more of his insanity… In fact, he’ll probably be declaring some sort of “moral victory” (just like with the Yecke fiasco) with some outlandish interpretation of what happened. He’s not really a fundie anyways but actually trolls for the sake of attention due to his inferiority complex over being declared non-notable by wikipedia.
The blame game has begun – according to DI we all have House Republicans to thank, er, I mean blame (http://www.evolutionnews.org/). While I certainly will thank some of them (but more importantly the Democrats and committee staffers whose analyses on the House and Senate side were spot on), I also want to recognize the press who worked hard on this issue, and also thanks to the political egos that are probably largely responsible for these two bad bills not coalescing into something real. Now we look forward to new action in the bicentennial year of Darwin’s birth…gosh I hope we find that elusive transitional fossil before then!
Ha ha! I am helping with research at USF on pink sundews, we are out in the field mostly, any time we hear big rustling we joke that it’s the SkunkApe or ManBearPig… spying on us, reporting back to Al Gore.
A heartfelt thanks from this science standard writer and science teacher. We just finished the draft course descriptions based on the new standards and they are in process of final review. They parallel the new standards. Those who have never tried to teach from the old standards have no idea how much this means and how grateful teachers are for the new SCIENCE based document.
The DI and the ID creationists will, of course, evolve and start laying the groundwork for the next attempt to sneak ID creationism into the science classes. We need to be ready.
Congratulations on the double success of the new science standards and getting this bill quashed. Following this issue from across the pond, it is obvious that you have managed to get effective support mobilised. Well done.
Keep up the good work but enjoy a celebration for now before the work begins on the next chapter
My Rep sent me a thoughtful letter about why he supported the bill. The whole thing seems so innocuous and it is easy to see how our scientifically illiterate society would back him on this. Worse, either he’s been fooled by thinking that there are “weaknesses” in the theory, or he’s lying.
We have to educate these people. I’ve attempted to make appointments but no luck so far.
Folks, science always wins. This is a question of education, patriotism and a wish for our nation to be competitive going forward. Thanks for defending something so important.
Ironically, US competitiveness in science and technology ensures that people with religious leanings will continue to have the freedom to worship as they see fit. If they really believe it they should get with the winning team.
Would anyone here be interested in helping me out here? I’m going to contact some local churches and offer a “Sunday Morning Science” discussion following their services. We need to show them that their religious freedom is predicated on a scientifically literate populace and that actions like sb2692 are deleterious.
We can reach these folks (at least some of them). I’ve been in the belly of the beast on other issues (GMO, climate) and find that most people are just not informed. If massaged correctly you can impact an attitude, if not change it completely.
I really don’t understand whaat the big fuss is all about! For months I have heard the outcry about this movie how it is anti-science etc. well I went and saw it for myself and not a fan of ID I saw nothing at all wrong with the film. Actually I saw it as pro-science not anti at all. There does appear to be an elitist group trying to control things yet there are many scientist who are not Christians or believers who see some holes in Darwinism and they shouldn’t be in fear of their jobs because they disagree with the elite few. In the long term I see this as more of a harm to science then a help.
There is a legit case for ID even Dawkins admits ID is in the realm of possibility in the movie. Actually there were a few admissions from some great scientist that ID has merit, it is sad that this is being surpressed.
I am going to see the movie again with a few friends who work for Scripts as scientists, funny thing is one said, if he got caught seeing that movie he may lose his job. How ironic.
For months I have heard the outcry about this movie how it is anti-science etc. well I went and saw it for myself and not a fan of ID I saw nothing at all wrong with the film.
Really? Did you see the numerous parts comparing evolution to Hitler? Where in the movie was the scientific evidence for ID provided? For a movie that you claim is so pro-science, you’d think that they would use science to show the case for ID, instead of blind emotion.
There does appear to be an elitist group trying to control things yet there are many scientist who are not Christians or believers who see some holes in Darwinism and they shouldn’t be in fear of their jobs because they disagree with the elite few.
It’s strange, because non of those non-Christian scientists were interviewed in this movie. All of the ID supporters were evangelicals in the movie. The people who were fired were lying for Jesus. They did not lose their jobs for their beliefs, they lost their jobs because they did unethical things to push their anti-science agenda.
There is a legit case for ID even Dawkins admits ID is in the realm of possibility in the movie.
Gee, that’s interesting. Because, it looks to me like the Dawkins and Stein “debate” at the end was chopped up to make ID look good. When Dawkins supposes that aliens could be the intelligent designer, he was actually extending an analogy to show that even if aliens brought life to Earth, then we would have to explain where those aliens came from, and so on, and so on. The producers of Expelled dishonestly edited down the interview to make it look like Dawkins was saying something that he wasn’t. It is yet more lying for Jesus.
Expelled is a sham. Only a moron would think that its message was anything other than a way to preach to the choir. Five minutes of research on Google completely destroys any point made in this movie. The producers of the movie did very dishonest things to dupe the scientists interviewed in the movie into agreeing to interviews. They lied about what the movie was about, they edited the content of the interviews to take things said by the scientists completely out of context, and they even lied about the title and the intention of the movie. All this time, I thought that bearing false witness was still a sin in Christianity. Apparently, it is not.
I haven’t seen the movie yet, but I understand the first scientist that they interviewed was an evolutionist that lost his job, because he didn’t reject an article that cast doubts on evolution.
Actually, this is not true. The “scientist” was an editor for a journal, who broke the peer review rules to publish a sham article by Meyers in support of ID. He was fired because he broke the rules and for his unethical behavior, not for his beliefs.
Ellie, If you were to observe scientists at work you would find constant debate and challenges. Unlike religion science is constantly changing and adjusting to the appearance of new data and new technology. The last thing a good scientists is afraid of is debate or change. What is repugnant is dishonest claims made without any effort to really understand the problems involved or to produce data to support a claim.
Sterberg was not fired but he was asked to return about 50 overdue library books. It is true that he got transferred to a new sponsor as under the circumstances his original one was unable to continue. You see, he was dead. As far as I can make out, not one of the ‘victims’ in ‘Expelled’ was actually expelled from anything.
The big outcry is because scientists don’t want anyone to question them. They cannot stand another point of view.
You’ve never been to a scientific meeting, have you? When a scientist delivers a paper they expect to get questions. The discussion and question and answer sessions are normally the most interesting and fruitful parts of a meeting, especially when strong opinions are expressed on both sides. I have witnessed two scientists yelling at each other across a room – but they went off to lunch together. The outcry is nothing to do with the particular point of view, it’s because of the complete lack of evidence and the unwillingness to attempt to find any.
The big outcry is because scientists don’t want anyone to question them.
Too bad the audience members present for my thesis defence didn’t know this. It would have saved me about a half-hour of fielding critiques and questions from them, and about 2 hours of oral defence from my committee members. Bastards!
One comment from a strategy perspective: How about thanking the politicians who supported you also? As another poster mentioned, it may have been straight politics, but even so, they put their careers on the line to help. By doing so, you may be able build a stronger alliance with these same politicians and hopefully counteract Storms and her cronies.
At the very least, you may be able to give some wavering and/or unknowledgeable politicos the understanding and background needed to support you more intelligently (no pun intended).
Okay – now I’ll go back to watching my joisey politicos.
What is all the fuss, why so defensive ? – what is there to hide ? I look at all these comments and not one here has shown any type of good character. That speaks louder than all of your “empirical” data. Attitude is more understood than “theories” are. When I see all the derogatory statements and acid reactions – Why ?
Because we’re pleased that a bunch of out-of-state, lying, hypocritical, fraudulent scam artists LOST, and that the effort of some terribly misguided legislators to use taxpayer-funded schools as Evangelical tent revivals FAILED, that’s why.
The good guys won this one. The liars, shills, and theocrats lost. That’s a GOOD outcome.
And, thanks for admitting that a large part of their side is based entirely on emotional and religious appeals, not actual evidence and logic.
How can it be claimed that the Florida legislature has urgent legislative business if the legislative year ended so early, on May 2?
Despite your sarcasm, you are not the only one who wonders about this. In fact, I have to wonder why we even have a legislature here in Florida in the first place. other than to screw things up that is.