Dead

Let us take a moment of silence for House Bill 1483 and Senate Bill 2692, the deceptively named “academic freedom” bills.

Time of death: 6 p.m.

I doubt they will rest in peace, though.

73 Responses to “Dead”

  1. James F Says:

    Intelligent Design bills, we hardly knew ye.

    YES!

  2. Jonathan Smith Says:

    Ding Dong the witch (b***h) is gone how about them bananas!!!!

  3. Orlando_Atheist Says:

    Great job covering this debacle of a bill!
    I am quite sure will will be back here next year…

  4. Karl Says:

    As I recall, necromancy is frowned upon in the bible…

  5. Joe Meert Says:

    This is actually a win for education in Florida and we should not forget this. While us old folk celebrate, it is the next generation of science students who are the real winners. We just had to pinch hit on their behalf. Me, I’d like to thank Brandon for keeping this on the front pages and getting our word out. I’d also like to thank Joe Wolf for his leadership and willingness to drive the extra mile to defeat this legislation along with all the other members. We can’t rest, but we can all have a toast to this victory.

    Cheers

    Joe Meert

  6. MelM Says:

    When does the next session start? Will the creationists have to submit new bills or can they just start where they left off?

  7. Realist Says:

    I think that it starts next year…and I would like to know the answers to those questions also MelM.

  8. James F Says:

    Well said, Joe.

    To Joe M., Joe W., Mary, Pete, Brandon, and the many people who have worked so hard on the ground – be vigilant, but do toast this victory. Salud!

  9. Jonathan Smith Says:

    Brandon: Press release?

  10. Jonathan Smith Says:

    My personal thanks to all the members of FCS and the NCSE who have all worked so hard for this.
    I would also thank all the supporting partners (including my own) who did not complain about our trips to Orlando and Tallahassee.

  11. PatrickHenry Says:

    Oook, oook! (That’s my ancestors joining in the celebration.)

  12. S.Scott Says:

    YaYYyyyyyyy!!!!

  13. Karl Says:

    So is my orange (*squish*)

  14. Captain Jack Says:

    Arr me buckos…it looks like Pastafarianism will have te wait fer social studies class.

  15. Noodlicious Says:

    Yes Capt’n Jack
    No joy for outing me new eye patch…such high hopes…dashed….yet again!! *Sniff*

    Huge kudos to Brandon and all the Florida Citizens for Science contributors.
    Excellent efforts. Congrats Florida!

  16. Green Earth Says:

    Don’t forget to thank your noodly master!
    RAmen!

  17. Noodlicious Says:

    RAmen!! :)

  18. Frank J Says:

    Once again the draconian “Darwinists” force those poor students to learn pseudoscience on their own time – and on their own parents’ dime. ;-)

  19. Brandon Haught Says:

    Don’t make me ban all you noodley folks for pushing your saucy religion around here. I’m keeping an eye on you folks.

    I am heading out on a date with my wife and then later I have to see if the Celtics can manage to pull off a road victory. So a press release will have to wait for now.

    Thanks for all the thanks, folks. But I just happened to be the more visible FSC member is all. All the FCS folks have been real good butt kickers. And my hat is off to all of you blog readers who heeded the call to make phone calls, send letters, and write emails.

    Not to be a downer here, but the bills dying like they did had much more to do with good ol fashioned politics than anything FCS did. We still played a role, but we simply dodged the bullet here. We need to be ready for the next fight, which likely come sooner than later.

    Good night!

  20. S.Scott Says:

    Yes Brandon, but thankfully they listened to all of us that called their attention to the nonsense. I personally have faith that the political process worked the way it was supposed to!

    (They wouldn’t have fought so hard for us if they didn’t think anyone cared about that dumb bill)

    Yay for our kids!!!

  21. firemancarl Says:

    Gosh, I thought the prayer session they held would have surely seen the bill pass. I guess god hates idiot politicians.

    Thanks to Brandon for keeping us informed and updated. And shame on you for supporting the Celtics, you should support the Magic!

    Thanks to all the posters on here. You all did great work confounding the IDiots.

    Larry Farfaman, we hardly knew ye

  22. Karl Says:

    oh, he’ll be back with more of his insanity… In fact, he’ll probably be declaring some sort of “moral victory” (just like with the Yecke fiasco) with some outlandish interpretation of what happened. He’s not really a fundie anyways but actually trolls for the sake of attention due to his inferiority complex over being declared non-notable by wikipedia.

  23. Stuart Weinstein Says:

    This is good news. However, there is part of me that will miss the potential for another Dover debacle here.

    Oh well. There is always next year.

  24. firemancarl Says:

    Oh well. There is always next year.

    Oh no Stuart! Next year I hope we have more Dems or sane Reps in office and bills like this will never see the light of day!

  25. Paul R Says:

    The blame game has begun – according to DI we all have House Republicans to thank, er, I mean blame (http://www.evolutionnews.org/). While I certainly will thank some of them (but more importantly the Democrats and committee staffers whose analyses on the House and Senate side were spot on), I also want to recognize the press who worked hard on this issue, and also thanks to the political egos that are probably largely responsible for these two bad bills not coalescing into something real. Now we look forward to new action in the bicentennial year of Darwin’s birth…gosh I hope we find that elusive transitional fossil before then! :)

  26. firemancarl Says:

    I hope we find that elusive transitional fossil before then!

    ZING!!!!!!!

  27. Green Earth Says:

    There are no transitional fossils, don’t ‘cha know? No transitional species either- just ask Kirk Cameron, we don’t see any croc-a-ducks running around now do we?

  28. DaveH Says:

    Woo Hoo! I know I’ll sleep a little better tonight. Keep up the good work!

  29. firemancarl Says:

    we don’t see any croc-a-ducks running around now do we?

    WHy no GE, but I have seen the great Florida SkunkApe!

  30. m arie Says:

    Where are all the trolls? Where did they go? You know the In Your Face posters? They went back under the bridge, thats where they went!

  31. m arie Says:

    In shame!

  32. Green Earth Says:

    but I have seen the great Florida SkunkApe!

    Ha ha! I am helping with research at USF on pink sundews, we are out in the field mostly, any time we hear big rustling we joke that it’s the SkunkApe or ManBearPig… spying on us, reporting back to Al Gore.

  33. mayhempix Says:

    Thank you Florida… for once you got it right.

  34. wright Says:

    Many thanks to those who covered this mess and kept the rest of us informed. Hopefully this success, as transitory as it may be, will contribute to similar efforts nationwide.

  35. Pete Dunkelberg Says:

    Thanks to all!!!
    All the press
    ACLU
    All good citizens who took the trouble to support science.

  36. S.Scott Says:

    OT – (Hey, how about a science question?) Does anyone know if peacocks are indigenous (native) to Florida? I had 3 females on my roof today.

    Should I be calling an animal shelter?

  37. Dave C Says:

    Peacocks are not native.

    A heartfelt thanks from this science standard writer and science teacher. We just finished the draft course descriptions based on the new standards and they are in process of final review. They parallel the new standards. Those who have never tried to teach from the old standards have no idea how much this means and how grateful teachers are for the new SCIENCE based document.
    The DI and the ID creationists will, of course, evolve and start laying the groundwork for the next attempt to sneak ID creationism into the science classes. We need to be ready.

  38. DB Says:

    Congratulations, you people are patriots! You put up the good fight and won. Thank you.

  39. AllanW Says:

    Congratulations on the double success of the new science standards and getting this bill quashed. Following this issue from across the pond, it is obvious that you have managed to get effective support mobilised. Well done.

    Keep up the good work but enjoy a celebration for now before the work begins on the next chapter :)

  40. Galapagos Says:

    FUCK YEAH@@@@@@@

    FREEDOM

    SCIENCE

    LOVE

  41. Jonathan Smith Says:

    AllanW : Where across the pond are you ? I am from Kettering Northants.

  42. Jonathan Smith Says:

    Qoute from The Tampa Tribune “Sen. Ronda Storms was rebuked in her effort to infuse religion into lessons on biological evolution”

  43. Kevin F. Says:

    My Rep sent me a thoughtful letter about why he supported the bill. The whole thing seems so innocuous and it is easy to see how our scientifically illiterate society would back him on this. Worse, either he’s been fooled by thinking that there are “weaknesses” in the theory, or he’s lying.

    We have to educate these people. I’ve attempted to make appointments but no luck so far.

    Folks, science always wins. This is a question of education, patriotism and a wish for our nation to be competitive going forward. Thanks for defending something so important.

    Ironically, US competitiveness in science and technology ensures that people with religious leanings will continue to have the freedom to worship as they see fit. If they really believe it they should get with the winning team.

    Kevin

  44. Kevin F. Says:

    Also-

    Would anyone here be interested in helping me out here? I’m going to contact some local churches and offer a “Sunday Morning Science” discussion following their services. We need to show them that their religious freedom is predicated on a scientifically literate populace and that actions like sb2692 are deleterious.

    We can reach these folks (at least some of them). I’ve been in the belly of the beast on other issues (GMO, climate) and find that most people are just not informed. If massaged correctly you can impact an attitude, if not change it completely.
    Thanks.

    Kevin

  45. MaryB Says:

    Kevin,
    Where are oyu located (its a long state)

  46. Kevin F. Says:

    I’m up in Gainesville. This is important and I’ll travel to do it.

    A familiar adage tells us that “It is better to light a single candle than to curse the darkness.”

    We probably should do both.

    Kevin

  47. Kevin F. Says:

    In a worst-case scenario perhaps we could assemble a plan and package that anyone could use in a Sunday Morning Science scenario.

    I still plan to do some in my area and will keep you posted about how it works.

    Kevin

  48. Steve Sutton Says:

    Glad things turned out for the best. This should make it a lot easier for high school students to actually do well in college, at least, for now.

  49. MaryB Says:

    kevin,
    I am in Gainesville also -email me at kmlisle@yahoo.com

  50. James F Says:

    Kevin,

    Please check the Clergy Letter Project for local clergy and scientists who could also assist you.

    Good luck!

  51. makita Says:

    Kevin F.: e-mail me at 05makita@gmail.com

  52. Derick S Says:

    YAY YAY YAY! I’m really happy to see the legislators make the right call.

  53. Tom Says:

    I really don’t understand whaat the big fuss is all about! For months I have heard the outcry about this movie how it is anti-science etc. well I went and saw it for myself and not a fan of ID I saw nothing at all wrong with the film. Actually I saw it as pro-science not anti at all. There does appear to be an elitist group trying to control things yet there are many scientist who are not Christians or believers who see some holes in Darwinism and they shouldn’t be in fear of their jobs because they disagree with the elite few. In the long term I see this as more of a harm to science then a help.
    There is a legit case for ID even Dawkins admits ID is in the realm of possibility in the movie. Actually there were a few admissions from some great scientist that ID has merit, it is sad that this is being surpressed.
    I am going to see the movie again with a few friends who work for Scripts as scientists, funny thing is one said, if he got caught seeing that movie he may lose his job. How ironic.

  54. zygosporangia Says:

    For months I have heard the outcry about this movie how it is anti-science etc. well I went and saw it for myself and not a fan of ID I saw nothing at all wrong with the film.

    Really? Did you see the numerous parts comparing evolution to Hitler? Where in the movie was the scientific evidence for ID provided? For a movie that you claim is so pro-science, you’d think that they would use science to show the case for ID, instead of blind emotion.

    There does appear to be an elitist group trying to control things yet there are many scientist who are not Christians or believers who see some holes in Darwinism and they shouldn’t be in fear of their jobs because they disagree with the elite few.

    It’s strange, because non of those non-Christian scientists were interviewed in this movie. All of the ID supporters were evangelicals in the movie. The people who were fired were lying for Jesus. They did not lose their jobs for their beliefs, they lost their jobs because they did unethical things to push their anti-science agenda.

    There is a legit case for ID even Dawkins admits ID is in the realm of possibility in the movie.

    Gee, that’s interesting. Because, it looks to me like the Dawkins and Stein “debate” at the end was chopped up to make ID look good. When Dawkins supposes that aliens could be the intelligent designer, he was actually extending an analogy to show that even if aliens brought life to Earth, then we would have to explain where those aliens came from, and so on, and so on. The producers of Expelled dishonestly edited down the interview to make it look like Dawkins was saying something that he wasn’t. It is yet more lying for Jesus.

    Expelled is a sham. Only a moron would think that its message was anything other than a way to preach to the choir. Five minutes of research on Google completely destroys any point made in this movie. The producers of the movie did very dishonest things to dupe the scientists interviewed in the movie into agreeing to interviews. They lied about what the movie was about, they edited the content of the interviews to take things said by the scientists completely out of context, and they even lied about the title and the intention of the movie. All this time, I thought that bearing false witness was still a sin in Christianity. Apparently, it is not.

  55. ellie Says:

    The big outcry is because scientists don’t want anyone to question them. They cannot stand another point of view. Sounds like religion to me.

    I haven’t seen the movie yet, but I understand the first scientist that they interviewed was an evolutionist that lost his job, because he didn’t reject an article that cast doubts on evolution.

  56. ellie Says:

    Kevin, You work on the churches and you’ll deceive the ones that don’t know the truth. Meanwhile I’ll work on the schools.

  57. zygosporangia Says:

    I haven’t seen the movie yet, but I understand the first scientist that they interviewed was an evolutionist that lost his job, because he didn’t reject an article that cast doubts on evolution.

    Actually, this is not true. The “scientist” was an editor for a journal, who broke the peer review rules to publish a sham article by Meyers in support of ID. He was fired because he broke the rules and for his unethical behavior, not for his beliefs.

  58. James F Says:

    Sternberg was not fired for accepting a paper. He violated editorial policy at the journal, but he wasn’t even fired.

    http://www.expelledexposed.com/index.php/the-truth/sternberg

  59. MaryB Says:

    Ellie, If you were to observe scientists at work you would find constant debate and challenges. Unlike religion science is constantly changing and adjusting to the appearance of new data and new technology. The last thing a good scientists is afraid of is debate or change. What is repugnant is dishonest claims made without any effort to really understand the problems involved or to produce data to support a claim.

  60. Richard Simons Says:

    Sterberg was not fired but he was asked to return about 50 overdue library books. It is true that he got transferred to a new sponsor as under the circumstances his original one was unable to continue. You see, he was dead. As far as I can make out, not one of the ‘victims’ in ‘Expelled’ was actually expelled from anything.

    The big outcry is because scientists don’t want anyone to question them. They cannot stand another point of view.

    You’ve never been to a scientific meeting, have you? When a scientist delivers a paper they expect to get questions. The discussion and question and answer sessions are normally the most interesting and fruitful parts of a meeting, especially when strong opinions are expressed on both sides. I have witnessed two scientists yelling at each other across a room – but they went off to lunch together. The outcry is nothing to do with the particular point of view, it’s because of the complete lack of evidence and the unwillingness to attempt to find any.

  61. Spirula Says:

    The big outcry is because scientists don’t want anyone to question them.

    Too bad the audience members present for my thesis defence didn’t know this. It would have saved me about a half-hour of fielding critiques and questions from them, and about 2 hours of oral defence from my committee members. Bastards!

  62. firemancarl Says:

    Tom
    There is a legit case for ID even Dawkins admits ID is in the realm of possibility in the movie.

    Yeah, just as likely that there is a great tea pot orbiting Mars as we speak. Didn’t RD also say that Zeus was just as likely the cause behind ID?

  63. Pineyman Says:

    Hello All!

    One comment from a strategy perspective: How about thanking the politicians who supported you also? As another poster mentioned, it may have been straight politics, but even so, they put their careers on the line to help. By doing so, you may be able build a stronger alliance with these same politicians and hopefully counteract Storms and her cronies.

    At the very least, you may be able to give some wavering and/or unknowledgeable politicos the understanding and background needed to support you more intelligently (no pun intended).

    Okay – now I’ll go back to watching my joisey politicos.

  64. S.Scott Says:

    Absolutely Pineyman. :-) Especially our “RINO’s” (republican’s with sense)

  65. Foxtail Says:

    What is all the fuss, why so defensive ? – what is there to hide ? I look at all these comments and not one here has shown any type of good character. That speaks louder than all of your “empirical” data. Attitude is more understood than “theories” are. When I see all the derogatory statements and acid reactions – Why ?

  66. Ivy Mike Says:

    Because we’re pleased that a bunch of out-of-state, lying, hypocritical, fraudulent scam artists LOST, and that the effort of some terribly misguided legislators to use taxpayer-funded schools as Evangelical tent revivals FAILED, that’s why.

    The good guys won this one. The liars, shills, and theocrats lost. That’s a GOOD outcome.

    And, thanks for admitting that a large part of their side is based entirely on emotional and religious appeals, not actual evidence and logic.

  67. zygosporangia Says:

    And, thanks for admitting that a large part of their side is based entirely on emotional and religious appeals, not actual evidence and logic.

    Hear, hear! :-)

  68. Ivy Mike Says:

    I swear, the creationists are their own worst enemy.

    They claim, loudly, that it’s all about “science” and “improving education”, but, eventually, they ALL finally bring up God, Heaven, Hell, etc. when they get wound up.

    They simply cannot help themselves…it’s the mark of a true zealot. At some point, they HAVE to preach a sermon. It’s all they really know, and it exposes the lies and deceit better than ever we could.

  69. Larry Fafarman Says:

    How can it be claimed that the Florida legislature has urgent legislative business if the legislative year ended so early, on May 2?

  70. Larry Fafarman Says:

    James F Says:

    –”Sternberg was not fired for accepting a paper. He violated editorial policy at the journal, but he wasn’t even fired. “–

    The real question is not whether Sternberg was fired — the real question is about what would have happened to him had a big stink not been raised about the persecution he received at the Smithsonian.

  71. zygosporangia Says:

    The real question is not whether Sternberg was fired — the real question is about what would have happened to him had a big stink not been raised…

    He would only be a tarnished memory instead of a poster child for the lies of Expelled.

  72. firemancarl Says:

    The real question is not whether Sternberg was fired — the real question is about what would have happened to him had a big stink not been raised about the persecution he received at the Smithsonian.

    He would quietly left for other places to do his work.

    I do love though how the DI made a big stink out of it.

    Golly, when actually read what happened, it makes him look like a blithering IDiot.

  73. firemancarl Says:

    How can it be claimed that the Florida legislature has urgent legislative business if the legislative year ended so early, on May 2?

    Larry,

    Despite your sarcasm, you are not the only one who wonders about this. In fact, I have to wonder why we even have a legislature here in Florida in the first place. other than to screw things up that is.