All those who can make it, please show up for the Clay County school board meeting. The board will be considering a resolution against evolution in the state science standards. [Previous post with copy of resolution here.]
WHERE:Â Fleming Island High School Teacher Inservice Center, 2233
Village Parkway (connected to Fleming Island High School)
WHEN: Thursday, Jan. 17, 7PM
The meeting is scheduled to start at 7:00 P.M. With the aid of a friendly school board member the resolution has been moved from the no discussion to the discussion part of the agenda. If you wish to speak you must fill out a card, usually green, when you arrive. I will be arriving at six to try to talk to the superintendent and or any available board members. Look for the guy in the blue suit toting around a large container of science textbooks.
Sorry- this is “Off Topic” but I just got word that Kim Kendall and Lynda Follenweider have been receiving threats and such since they were named on this site. …
” have received prank calls and a threatening letter was sent to Lynda (with no return address or name — things like God is a lie –the Bible is a hoax — tons of profanity, etc.) “…
This is sad to me – these two ladies are not public officials. Activists -yes – Public Officials – no.
That is sad – there is no need for pranks or threats. We’ll win this because they’re trying to distort reality, and they’re doing it in a very slimy/sneaky/possibly illegal way. Florida cannot continue to fail its students – the vast majority of parents want MORE for their children than they had. Precious few want their children’s world to be as small as theirs was. Being hateful to those few isn’t helpful at all – being rational (maybe a little snarky) and RIGHT is all we have to do.
I’m somewhat confused, though – is ‘the Bible is a hoax!’ considered a threatening phrase, or were there actual threats?
I really wish I could join you, DC – sometime in the future I would like to meet up with you and buy you a beverage of your choice (or two.)
Good luck tonight – and thank the sympathetic board member for me. I’m glad at least some elected official realized it’s awfully shady to relegate all mention of this resolution to ‘approval of all remaining consent items.’
It is not just sad, it is very counterproductive for science supporters to engage such acts like sending threatening letters to anyone, public officials or not. We need to stick to the subject and be polite. We do not need friends who threaten or intimidate anyone. If any of us know anyone who sent such letters we should out them and let them face full consequences. We should not consider it “ratting on a friend”, nor should we practice “don’t ask don’t tell” policy of tacitly accepting their acts merely because they ostensibly support science.
But let us also not discount the possibility that some of the fundies are sending these letters to discredit science. We should ask Kendall and Follenweider to make the contents of the letters public so that we could judge for ourselves if they are really threatening. We should also ask them to cooperate with law enforcement to catch the perps.
I agree, sending threats is pointless,I have recived several phone
calls telling me that I am going to burn in hell.
I know that people have been threatened because they support science and evolution theory–from personal experience. I have seen little evidence of similar things happening in reverse. I’d like to see the evidence–if it exists. Those responsible should be banned from this forum.
I have left opposing views on this site and then attacked as “ignorant” and “a liar”. Liberals used to be so accepting— not if you’re talking God. Believe what you want just don’t force it on our children via the classroom. You want your kid to be a little evolutionist, spend time after dinner, just you, him and Darwin.
BBrown – The two ladies mentioned earlier were not posting on this website – if you post here, be prepared for a response.
bbrown –
If you want to teach your children that life was created by an “intelligent designer”, then perhaps that should also be relegated to your dinner table. Science class should be topical, and it should teach science that has been rigorously and thoroughly tested. The theory of natural selection fits this criteria. The “theory” (philosophical hypothesis) of intelligent design does not, because it is not a valid hypothesis.
bbrown,
I am really sorry that someone called you a liar. But, you should not take it too personally that someone called you “ignorant”. The person probably just meant that you don’t seem to have an understanding of the scientific concepts being discussed. If you would like information on evolutionary theory or and other topic in science, I would gladly point you in the direction of America’s finest Universities where you can learn about the amazing wonders of natural science.
Nobody should be forcing their personal beliefs on others’ children. I agree with you 100%. But, we are discussing science here, not beliefs.
The fact that you continue to mention Darwin, makes it seem as though you are unaware of the multitude of scientific discoveries that have been made over the last 150 years. I do hope that you take the time to visit your local library and learn a bit about natural science. If you do, I am sure that nobody will call you ignorant anymore. Thanks!
I am not proposing we teach our children ID however, there are a multitude of scientific falsehoods associated with evolution that should be included in any proposed curriculum.
bbrown –
Please name one of these falsehoods. Evolution and natural selection has stood up to 150 years of scrutiny. I’m curious to see a counter-example.
The Clay County location is not obvious if you don’t live there. What I think, which easily be wrong:
google maps find
Village Square Parkway, Orange Park, FL 32003
* note: Village Square Parkway, not just Village Parkway
Map: http://tinyurl.com/2m85zs
Coming from Jacksonville, go south on 17. Turn right on Thunderbolt, then left on Town Center Blvd then Left on Village Square Pky …
Coming from Gainesville probably take 301, get onto 21 = Blanding somehow, later get onto 220 somehow, go west to Town Center in Orange Park, then right on Village Square Parkway.
Corrections from someone who knows, please.
bbrown, perhaps this will help:
http://www.talkorigins.org/origins/faqs.html
http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/
bbrown,
When you are done reading that, you might try University of California, Berkely:
http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/home.php
They did an excellent job.
Here is a couple for you as well.
http://www.crossroad.to/text/creation.html
http://www.crossroad.to/articles2/2002/darwin.htm
http://www.creationministries.org/resources.asp
(play 50 facts vs. Evolution – Part B)
Thanks for that 50 facts vs. evolution. That video was hilarious. It shows what happens when ignorant people try to understand science, and use the bible as the ruler. DNA code barriers and Intelligent design indeed. hah.
bbrown,
next time you offer up something, please find sources that dont not include anything biblical or invoke god.
Again, your sources seem to confuse abiogenisis with evolution, bbrown.
It’s funny, isn’t it? Intelligent Design supporters claim that their “theory” does not involve God, yet every single one of their articles, every single one of their videos, every single one of their claims are hopelessly intertwined with quotes from the bible. Yet, they wonder why no one will take them seriously, except possibly brain-dead politicians.
I have painstakingly read the articles you provided. As the others have mentioned, the articles invoke God or the bible in a scientific context. A valid conclusion cannot be made in this context. Also, as firemancarl said, your sources confuse abiogenisis with evolution, which is a great error.
This leads me to the question, if you are really interested in learning the truth about a scientific topic, why wouldn’t you refer to our best and brightest scientists. I gave you a link to UC Berkely. I can also provide you the same information from the National Academy of Sciences, NASA, Harvard, or pretty much any major University. Why would you prefer to get scientifc facts from a Christian Ministry. I suppose you are not really interested in science and are just here to spout off.
You people amaze me in the fervor in which you take to task this battle for “science”. Obviously this forum is only meant for one sided commentary. With the number of counties offering up resolutions maybe there are two sides to this issue. But that’s right these counties are made up of uneducated rednecks with no knowledge of “scientific facts”.
You have the right to disagree, and we have the right to refute every point you bring up.
You are right, we will fight hard for science, because pseudoscience, like ID, have no place in science text books. People who believe in science don’t want to see it diluted by people who believe in fairy tales.
I’m not asking for ID to be included in science textbooks— but your religion has no evidence to support the macro evolution theory. Where is your transitional life form, where is your missing link in the fossil record. Don’t show us variations of finches or butterflies and tell us we all evolved from a single life form. Where is this “proof in the lab” data, why do I have to produce evidence and you can simply equate millions of years and absolve any burden of proof. You guys dodge the real issue of flaws in the theory by questioning my beliefs. Well the issue before the DOE is, “Evolution” fact or fiction, not ID.
bbrown –
The problem with you creationists is that you refuse to go through the proper channels. If you believe that evolution is incorrect, then the burden of proof is on you. Evolution is a scientific theory. It takes substantial evidence to discredit it, not quotes from the bible as all of the links you have posted here have used.
Attempting to use politics, going through the department of education, etc, is not the proper channel for this. If you believe that evolution is wrong, then you need to be willing to prove it. That is what it takes to discredit a theory through science — not petitioning politicians or suing or anything else.
By controlling science teachers through politics, you are attempting to send a clear message that only that which does not offend religious fundamentalists is okay to teach in school. The fact that you cannot put forth a single valid claim that discredits this theory shows that you only believe it to be true. You have no evidence. This belief of yours is as much religion as creationism itself, it is merely a more craven position for you to be taking.
You have been asked repeatedly to give some evidence to your claim, and all you can produce is scripture and ignorance. Yet, you still believe that your position is correct. That is faith, not science.
Again you dodge.
What really is sad is the fact that the real problem with our education system is not that we don’t get enough evolution. I don’t think as someone has said on this site, that our lack of in depth teaching of the subject in our public schools is why “we are unable to compete in the global market”. The major obstacle that our children face is they are stuck in a system that distributes funding based on how well you perform on standardized testing (FCAT). I know of many education professionals who would tell you there is too much classroom time spent preparing to take these tests. We need to raise our standards across the board, fund our schools properly and stop trying cram our own ideologies down each others throats. And don’t fool yourself into thinking that evolution has nothing to do with ideology.
bbrown –
Evolution is only ideology in your own head, because you have faith.
I do agree that we spend too much time on the FCAT and other standardized tests, and that these tests are largely meaningless. However, this is not the point of the discussion at hand.
If you want to remove evolution from the books, then you must only come up with an example to disprove it, that can withstand scientific inquiry. If you took the time to submit this to an accredited and peer reviewed scientific journal and if they actually published it, chances are that you would win a Nobel Prize for your efforts. However, I doubt that any argument you have presented here would make it anywhere other than the cutting room floor, or the refuse basket. Since you and other closet creationists are unable to do this, you must use politics to accomplish the same means. That is what this discussion is about.