Kentucky gives insight into Florida religious liberties bills

adamevedinoThe Kentucky legislature is considering Religious Liberties bills that are remarkably similar to ones filed here in Florida. Here’s a link to the Kentucky bill and, for comparison, here is a link to the Florida bill.

Language from the Kentucky bill:

… a student shall be permitted to voluntarily:
Express religious or political viewpoints in classroom, homework, artwork, and other written and oral assignments free from discrimination or penalty based on the religious or political content of the submissions

Language from the Florida bill:

A student may express his or her religious beliefs in coursework, artwork, and other written and oral assignments free from discrimination. A student’s homework and classroom assignments shall be evaluated, regardless of their religious content, based on expected academic standards relating to the course curriculum and requirements. A student may not be penalized or rewarded based on the religious content of his or her work if the coursework, artwork, or other written or oral assignments require a student’s viewpoint to be expressed.

Why does this matter? Because in the news article Ky. Senator: Christians Are Ones ‘Being Persecuted’ In Schools, a bill sponsor had this to say:

Asked if the bill might provide legal grounds for students to challenge answers on tests – for example, a creationist student who disagrees with a science teacher about the age of the earth – Robinson said the student should be free to repeat what was learned in class while appending his or her opinion without fear of reprisal.

“What I would do if I was answering, I’d say, ‘Well, according to my beliefs it’s 6,000 [years old], but according to what you say it’s more,'” the lawmaker told WUKY. “You still answered a question and it would be retaliation if they were to say you’ve got to believe what I believe and you can’t believe what you believe.”

But Robinson adds, “A teacher, if they had respect, they would go ahead and respect and admire a student who thought for themselves.”

Hey! I want to play that game, too. Teacher: “Little Suzie, what is 2+2?” Suzie: “Well, according to my beliefs it’s 3, but according to what you say it’s more.”

Does that answer about basic math sound silly? It should, just like the answer about the age of the earth. It’s not a case of students thinking for themselves. It’s a case of students believing something demonstrably false.

Of course, that is a Kentucky lawmaker commenting on a Kentucky bill. But there are undeniable parallels to the Florida bills. The Kentucky senate approved their version of the bill and there is a good chance the house bill will cross the finish line, too.

What will happen in the Florida legislature? We’ll see once the session kicks off March 7. Both Florida bills have been assigned to review committees and both have picked up cosponsors, which are signs that these bills might have some life to them.

A Call to Action

Want to help Florida Citizens for Science stand up for sound science education in our home state? You can keep informed via this blog, Facebook and Twitter. But we sincerely need people willing to take on a more active role! We need people to monitor and take swift action when needed in Tallahassee by personally visiting lawmakers or making phone calls or networking with other like-minded organizations. The Religious Liberties bills might not be the only ones to potentially impact science education this legislative session. We’re also preparing for the science textbook adoption process that will kick off later this year. We’ll need vigilant citizens all across the state to help then! And when will the Florida Department of Education update the state science standards? We need eyes and ears looking out for that.

Contact any of our board members to learn more.

(Image from UnusualCards.)

19 Responses to “Kentucky gives insight into Florida religious liberties bills”

  1. Chris Says:

    it looks like people are getting fed up with the loonies on the left. It’s a little different but here’s another one.
    http://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/02/11/tennessee-lawmakers-introduce-milo-bill-to-protect-freedom-of-speech-on-all-state-campuses/

  2. Pierce R. Butler Says:

    How many is two plus two, Chris?

  3. Chris Says:

    Pierce, you got me on that one. Two plus two is two twos

    Or maby with Common Core 2+2= your favorite number

    2+2=
    2+8=10
    2+8=10
    10+10=20
    20-8=12
    12-8=4

    With Common Core A an advocate for common core you would accept other numbers

  4. Pierce R. Butler Says:

    Chris –

    Run that by any teacher who uses the CC curriculum, and see how fast you get a big red F.

    Hey, run it past any English teacher for useful feedback on spelling, grammar, and punctuation.

  5. Chris Says:

    Giving out ‘Fs’ may be the goal.

  6. Pierce R. Butler Says:

    Chris, parroting (posting) uninformed right-wing propaganda proves only that you can parrot.

    Got anything to say that pertains to the point made about, y’know, science education?

  7. Chris Says:

    Science? Pierce, 2+2 was what you needed answers for.

  8. Pierce R. Butler Says:

    Chris, you didn’t even answer my question, just tried (clumsily) to graft the original post’s example of silliness onto a curriculum you plainly don’t understand.

    Kinda reminds me of how our current so-called president, when asked a question about his inept proposals, starts blaming Obama. Are you commenting from DC, or Mar-a-Lago?

  9. Chris Says:

    Peirce, you have my sympathy with this new so-called president. I know it’s sad and it looks like not everybody can be downtrodden. Barry and Michael gave it their best shot at putting everyone in food lines and removing those despicable liberties you’ve been forced to endure. American women may be forced to finance the dismemberment of their own unborn children without taxpayer funds. Illegals aliens my be faced with the same type of laws here they have in their own country. And there is now thousands of perverts who may never sit on the toilet of their choice. 2+2 will no doubt turn out to be 4. The list goes on and on. I understand your frustration, the system is breaking down.

  10. Pierce R. Butler Says:

    Take it back to Breitbart, Chris.

    FCS is part of the reality-based community.

  11. Chris Says:

    Pierce, if teaching students mutation/natural selection can invent kidneys, tongues, skin, sex, immune systems, hair, feathers, fins, tails, queen bees and monkey butts without a single observed or detailed account of the process, only wishful speculation, Little Suzie’s math problem can also be correct without explanation. Thats reality.

  12. Pierce R. Butler Says:

    Chris – Oh my goodness, you’ve been listening to or reading Michael Behe again, I bet.

    One of the great moments of the Dover Kitzmiller trial came when the plaintiffs’ lawyers got Michael Behe, on the witness stand, to repeat his claim that there was no evidence of the immune system having evolved. They then presented him with a stack of books and scientific journals on the subject, literally two and a half feet high. He managed a feeble “that’s not what I meant,” while the majority in the courtroom enjoyed a good laugh.

    The scene could be repeated with any of the examples you list, though I doubt even Behe would fall into the same simple trap that many times. Just a few nights ago, I finished reading Edward O. Wilson’s The Social Conquest of Earth, about the rise of eusocial animals such as bees. While I don’t agree with all of it, I suggest you check it out from your local library and read it. Then you’ll know a lot more about the evolution of bees (and ants, and termites), including examples of particular species in which the mating-queen pattern has only reached the early stages of the reproductive system we see in the better-known eusocial insects today.

    Wouldn’t it be nice to be less ignorant?

  13. Chris Says:

    Actually I’ve been listing to you Pierce. I guess I should become a little more familiar with the Dover deal. I might have been laughing too at a two and a half foot high stack of journals and books on the subject. It is fascinating how a seasoned evolutionist can produce piles of documentation with such elaborate speculation that they are able to convince themselves that it’s true. I would imagian Behe was dumbfounded with all those scientific terms utilized in the documents. Terms like probabably, perhaps, possibly, could have, assumed, we think, must have, we believe and of cource it takes millions of years. Behe might be a little boring without imagination for facts.

    I’m sure your right, not only could the scene be repeated with my list of examples but the same evolutionary process could be repeated for each thing with a little white out and a name change. Let me guess, the nervous system, skeletal, Integumentary, muscular, endocrine, circulatory, respiratory , urinary, digestive, reproductive and immune systems all have one thing in common. ‘We BELIVE they all evolved over millions of years and that’s a fact.’ I normally don’t use the term BS, but it fits here so well nothing else will work.

    Don’t beat yourself up for being ignorant. Some think they have all the answers but no one on the planet knows everything.

    What was the immune system before it became an immune system?

  14. Pierce R. Butler Says:

    Chris –

    It is fascinating how a seasoned evolutionist can produce piles of documentation with such elaborate speculation that they are able to convince themselves that it’s true.

    Thing is, the “evolutionist” (the word you’re looking for is “scientist”) produces documentation based on evidence. If you tried actually reading such papers, then you wouldn’t have to keep relying on speculation</strong), so obvious to anyone and everyone who has read scientific literature.

    I would imagian Behe was dumbfounded …

    The key word in that being the misspelled one – but thanks for the giggles for saying this in a paragraph denouncing speculation.

    … no one on the planet knows everything.

    But some know so little they don’t know how little they know. (Look up “Dunning-Kruger effect” some time when you feel reflective.)

    What was the immune system before it became an immune system?

    I can answer that in two words: Start here.

  15. Pierce R. Butler Says:

    Oops – apologies to all for the foregoing html upscrews!

  16. Chris Says:

    Pierce,
    Not all scientist are evolutionist and not all evolutionist are scientist. As a matter of fact many in both categories are nut jobs. Reading scientific literature in itself has not provided or proved the point. Observation has not demonstrated or produced a functioning immune system.
    I would suggest you consider the cow jumping over the moon as a scientific fact. Here we have eye witness accounts as valid as the ones you have provided.

  17. Pierce R. Butler Says:

    Chris – Not all scientist are evolutionist and not all evolutionist are scientist.

    But almost everybody scientifically literate also knows basic grammar. It’s a Traditional Value™!

    Reading scientific literature in itself has not provided or proved the point.

    Nope, the evidence and the analysis make the point, not just reading with infinitesimal comprehension.

    Observation has not demonstrated or produced a functioning immune system.

    So the actual career-long observations of every doctor, nurse, and patient over more than a century just don’t count now somehow. Uh, does this have anything to do with neither of the words “immune” or “system” appearing in the King James Version, or do you rely on the even greater authority of “Chris says so!”?

    And here, let me give you (part of) the help you evidently need with this word

  18. Chris Says:

    Pierce,

    The career-long observations of every doctor, nurse, and patient do not point to evolutions full blown phylogenetic tree. On the contrary, what is witnessed is ducks remain ducks and people remain people with no marketable changes at all. The type of change you hope for only happens in the drawings and minds of those who need and explanation for life other than a creator. Maybe you should lay off the cartoons for awhile.

  19. Pierce R. Butler Says:

    Chris – What you said was

    Observation has not demonstrated or produced a functioning immune system.

    In point of fact, functioning immune systems have been produced and demonstrated, millions of times.

    … people remain people with no marketable changes at all.

    It remains against the law and the Constitution to market people, though with our current regime, who knows how long that will last?

    Perhaps if you read actual books on evolution (start with, say, Carl Zimmer), instead of creationist cartoons, you’d understand what you’re trying to dismiss. (Really: Jack Chick was not a scientist.)

    Hey, if you’d even learn to critically read your own comments before posting them, you wouldn’t make quite so much of an incoherent fool of yourself. But then you’d have to post under a different name, because no one here would think an informed and reasonable comment came from the same “Chris”.