Forked tongue, anyone?

Did I ever tell you the one about the evolution opponents who claimed that religion had nothing whatsoever to do with their stance? You probably think you have heard this one before, but you will still get a chuckle out of it, I guarantee.

Let me take you back in time to Feb. 19, 2008. Twenty people gave short speeches to the Florida Board of Education. Half were in support of the new draft of state science standards that the board was considering. This draft included the subject of evolution as a prominent “big idea” all students must know. The other half opposed the standards because of how evolution was presented. They claimed it was dogmatic. The standards’ supporters made a big deal out of how the other side’s motivation was religion. The opposition protested that religion had nothing to do with it.

John Stemberger, from the Florida Family Policy Council, stood before the Board and said, “I have to say to start with that I find it actually fascinating if not highly amusing that every single one of our opponents here today, without question, has interjected faith, God, religion, creationism; and we have said nothing about that. What you have heard is a straw man from our opponents today, that’s exactly what you’ve heard.” That’s a direct quote right from the video archive of the meeting.

Take a look at this page on the Florida Family Policy Council website. Scroll on down to the “In depth Research and Articles” section. Hmmmmm … what’s this?

Sowing Atheism
By Robert Bowie Johnson Jr.
The National Academy of Sciences’ sinister scheme to teach our children they’re decended (sic) from reptiles


About Brandon Haught

Communications Director for Florida Citizens for Science.
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46 Responses to Forked tongue, anyone?

  1. Kathy S says:

    Don’t serpents have forked tongues? Like that which might have been found in the garden of Eden? Just sayin’

  2. Karl says:

    Well, you can’t argue for God without talking about God…

    Actually, you can try, but you’d come off as a lying piece of sh*t either way.

  3. PatrickHenry says:

    I don’t care what people privately preach and believe. But the whole political enterprise of creationism is corrupt. Not a single one of them will tell the truth about their goals.

  4. Wolfhound says:

    Have you noticed that any group with the word “family” in their name is 99.9% likely to be a religious, bigoted, Jesus-freak, anti-science, nutjob organization? As if religoius idiocy has any bearing on what a “family” is. I, for one, am tired of this hijacking. >:(

  5. PatrickHenry says:

    Maybe the name of this outfit should be changed to: Florida Citizens for Science & Family.

  6. When he said, “we have said nothing about that,” he was talking about their testimony to the school board. On their website, they are talking to a different audience and so their approach is going to be different. There is no inconsistency there.

    The stereotyping of Darwin doubters as fundy creationists is a very big problem.

  7. Ivy Mike says:

    Every major (and minor) creationist/ID/evolution-and-science-denier group is made up of evangelical Christians. No exceptions. In fact, the only non-Christian creationist of whom I am aware is Ben Stein.

    Most are also Dominionist-controlled, with a few being Moonie front organizations. ALL are religious-based.

    Anyone saying anything different has simply failed to read their statements and output, and is probably lying through their teeth. Every time one finds oneself debating a creationist, sooner or later they will reference the Bible.

  8. MaryB says:

    Contradicting your own statements because your audience is different is still lying! The major concern on this list is not the ethics (?) of Madison Ave. or Politicians who adjust their “messages” to their “audiences”. It is teaching our children the truth and preparing them to deal with reality (and the future). Our views of what reality is may even differ but that does not excuse this grossly unethical (some would call it unchristian) approach .

  9. PatrickHenry says:

    Well, there are also Islamic creationists, like Harun Yahya. And the Moonies have already been mentioned (like Jonathan Wells of the Discovery Institute), and don’t forget the Raelians.

    But it’s entirely correct that in the US, the foolishness of creationism is concentrated in a very few Christian denominations — who proclaim that the others aren’t “true” Christians.

  10. S.Scott says:

    Gee … Larry is back! I’m sooo happy! (pause) Not!

  11. Karl says:

    Anytime Larry senses a drop in his reader base, he’s gotta go out trolling again to grab some attention. It would help if he added some more variety to his rants instead of going off about Judge Jones and Dover every other post. It would also help if he had mental capacity to make a coherent logical argument every now and then and some manner of reading comprehension skills to actually be able to understand the literature, but at this point, even chimps have been observed to show greater degrees of intelligence. I would recommend that you check out his blog to verify my claims, but that could be considered mental abuse…

  12. firemancarl says:

    Wha?? And now Larry rears his ugly head. Oy!

  13. firemancarl says:

    Hang on folks. How can I be related to reptiles? i wuz sure I wuz a munkey.

  14. Too bad those so-called biblical literalists ignore those parts they find . . . inconvenient. Like Matt 6:2; Matt 6:5; Matt 6:16; Matt 15:7; Matt 22:18; and especially Matt 23, an entire chapter devoted to Christ excoriating the hypocrites of his day.

  15. Wolfhound says:

    Well, seeing as how FarFarOut,Man is not a Florida Citizen, nor is he For Science, I fail to see why he is sliming up our site EXCEPT for the purpose of blog whoring…

  16. S.Scott says:

    Hey – stop insulting blog whores! 🙂

  17. firemancarl says:

    Yeah, but we like you Stacy! 🙂

  18. firemancarl says:

    Hey, check out why Larry has been banned from Pharyngula

    Miscreant: Larry Fafarman AKA Larry Farma, many others
    Crime: Stupidity, Morphing
    Sentence: Automatically Junked
    Comments :

    This fellow is probably mentally ill, but he’s able to maintain a blog that is a bottomless pit of stupidity. Also banned at the Panda’s Thumb.

    I’m not sayin, i’m just sayin.

  19. Wolfhound says:

    Stacy, you ain’t no whore; youse a LADY! 🙂

  20. S.Scott says:

    Aawwwww … ! You guys (and gals) are so nice! 😉

  21. One of the main reasons why you Darwinists insist that criticisms of Darwinism are motivated solely by religion is to enable misuse of the establishment clause to attack the teaching or even mere mention of those criticisms in public schools — you know that there is no constitutional separation of bad science and state (assuming arguendo that these criticisms are bad science).

  22. Wolfhound says:

    Here we go again with the bitching about Dover, as predicted. ID is religion. Says so in the ruling. Suck it up, you LOST, tittybaby. Show me an argument against evolution that isn’t religiously motivated. You’re religious, Larry. Don’t lie and say that your objections and criticisms of evolutionary theory have nothing to do with your faith. Oh, wait, ID proponents are incapable of honesty regarding this, Wedge Document aside. Teach religion in church and at home, not in science class. That you are unable to grasp this speaks volumes. Now, go back to whoring elsewhere. Like in a state you fecking live in.

  23. zygosporangia says:

    I took a look at the Farfablog… I found a bunch of crank, some hilarious comments from trolls, and some holocaust denial rants. Honestly, I’d find the site funny (that’s laughing at it), if I didn’t know that it was indication of a very sick man who has completely lost touch with reality.

    If Larry is real, then he needs help. He should be blocked, as to not encourage his delusions. Of course, I hope that he is just a troll. So many of his comments and rants are indicative of a classic delusional disorder. It could either be a real person with some serious psychological issues, or a puppet maintained by someone who has studied some psychology. Either way, he should not be encouraged.

    If it is the former case, he needs help. His reality is based on the idea that he is being persecuted for his beliefs, and the moment he realizes that no one cares about what he has to say, his reality will come crashing down and his actions will become unpredictable. If it is the latter case, then pretending to have such a disorder is distasteful and downright cruel to those poor folks who have to live with delusional disorders.

    Either way, I think FCS ought to ban this fellow. In the former case, allowing him to post here will only further his delusions. Any attempt to correct his position will only re-enforce his persecution fantasy. In the latter case, allowing him to post here is just a waste of everyone’s time.

    That’s my $0.02.

  24. PatrickHenry says:

    No one seems to get banned here. If it’s happened, I’ve missed it.

    At my own place I get a few hundred hits each day (which is relatively low traffic), and I don’t get too many comments. My posts never spawn debates. Maybe nobody cares, or maybe I’m so awesome that they don’t try. (Yeah, right.)

    Anyway I generally ignore the occasional silly comment. I do delete and mark as spam any comments that are pure witnessing, or that are touting creationist books.

    I’d ban some of those who regularly show up here, because their creationism is both mindless and persistent; but Brandon has his own rules. I don’t mind.

  25. PatrickHenry Says:
    –“No one seems to get banned here. If it’s happened, I’ve missed it.”–

    You missed it. I was banned from discussing co-evolution here — see

    My discussions of co-evolution were banned here because they were too persuasive — if they were unpersuasive, I would be allowed to post them here because they would then be considered examples of the supposed weakness of the opposition.

  26. Karl says:

    Wait, if you were banned, then… how and why are you still here? Your “discussion” involved posting the same discredited material over and over again, ignoring everything else. To call it a “discussion” would do disservice to the definition of “discussion.” Many of us already know that you have reading difficulties due to the numerous times you were caught making arguments against pro-evolution literature BASED ON JUST THE TITLE OF THE MATERIAL ALONE. You have also demonstrated a complete lack of knowledge regarding the scientific method, world history, and U.S. law based on your observations against… well, just about everything from wikipedia, Dover, Judge Jones, Hitler, and so on. You are like a crying child who is screaming in anguish when told that Santa is not real for the first time. You should really act your age.

  27. PatrickHenry says:

    Karl says [to Larry Fafarman]:

    Wait, if you were banned, then… how and why are you still here?

    Because creationism is never having to say you’re sorry.

  28. zygosporangia says:

    My discussions of co-evolution were banned here because they were too persuasive…

    As I said, any attempt to correct his position will only re-enforce his persecution fantasy.

  29. Karl Says:

    –“Wait, if you were banned, then…”–

    Only my discussions of co-evolution were banned.

    An FCS supporter posted the following message on my blog:

    –“Shut your pie hole you fossilized decrepit turd. The right exists as long as you allow it. By all means, turn the comment moderation back on like you did last year and watch your reader base drop again. It’s lonely at the bottom ain’t it? I, and from what I’ve seen, many others, haven’t been here for months since it happened. I’m sure you will be welcomed at FCS as long as you keep your arguments COHERENT and LOGICAL (and yes, some of the most unscientific theological drivel that FCS has encountered DO actually fit these two simple criteria), but for a mentally deficient troglodyte such as yourself, even this is asking too much. Cheers, and here’s hoping hope you die alone and unnoticed. “–

  30. zygosporangia says:


  31. Karl says:

    Well, judging by the content of the other comments posted on your blog, I’d say this latest one would fit right in. Your own rudeness (“You despicable dunghill” -what is your fascination with piles of cow excrement?) demanded a rude response. In case you haven’t figured it out, that latest smartass remark was from me. I hope it doesn’t come off as too much of a revelation. I’m surprised you don’t consider it a welcomed change to the usual cacophony of calls for you to get some professional help for your chronic insanity. Or I could be lying just to goad you into one of your insane rants that will lead to a banning of the more permanent variety. Whatever, it’s your call… here’s to another meltdown of your ego.

  32. ABO says:

    Be nice Larry, being banned would really be bad! For me I’d half to get a heard of cows to hear this much green house gas. Right now, I’m content with this BS, I don’t like cows. BS=Bad Science

    Those were interesting articles on the Florida Family website especially ‘the Woodstock of Evolution.’

    Its amazing that the present scientific conclusions which now stand can change tomorrow, and anyone who questions them today are considered as fools. Susan Anton a New York anthropologist said, This is not questioning the idea at all of evolution; it is refining some of the specific points.” Anton said, “This is a great example of what science does and religion doesn’t do. It’s a continuous self-testing process.”

    But the reality is, that the results of testing have predetermined boundaries to coincide with the original theory, no new belief or major change in the overall doctrine moves from it’s original position. Not unlike any other religion and thats science.

  33. zygosporangia says:

    The trolls are out in full force tonight. Is it a full moon?

  34. PatrickHenry says:

    What would it be like to be a troll? I’m trying to imagine going to some website devoted to a topic about which I know nothing — maybe opera. So I’d go and post stuff like: “Opera is dumb!” and “Opera music is horrible!” and “Opera fans are idiots!” and so on.

    They’d all tell me I’m a fool, and I know nothing about opera, and I should get lost. But I’d stay and keep posting …

    No, I can’t really see doing it. Difficult to imagine that anyone would do it. But they do.

  35. Wolfhound says:

    From one of my chums on TalkRational who is quite familiar with whackaloon Larry:

    “He’s not only an anti-evolutionist, he’s also a holocaust denier. His brother once turned up at Ed Brayton’s to apologise for his behaviour and pointed out that he has mental health issues. It’s a sad state of affairs. He will camp out at any blog that will have him and pontificate endlessly. I’d recommend banning him as soon as he turns up.”

    Holocaust denier? FUCK YOU, LARRY!! I had paternal relatives who were killed in the Nazi deathcamps and my maternal grandfather was one of the first on-scene at Dachau to liberate the Jews who were there. He broke down crying when he described to my brother and I what he witnessed. >:( I vote for banning your sorry ass on this alone and to your imaginary hell with your freedom of speech crap.

  36. Brandon Haught says:

    Wolfhound, I understand your passion, but I’m gonna have to ask you to please don’t get a flamewar going. Larry didn’t bring up the Holocaust in this thread, so I see no reason for you to drag that out. Let Larry’s poor reasoning and bad arguments speak for themselves. Tear apart the arguments he presents. When he gets tiresome and repetitive about any particular subject, we’ll shoo him away. No big deal.

    I try to be fair in running this blog, even to people I don’t particularly like. Larry typically hangs himself eventually, like he did with his idiotic co-evolution ramblings. At least he honored my demand to knock that off … even if he did go crying to other blogs whining about it.


  37. ABO says:


    “What would it be like to be a troll? I’m trying to imagine…..”

    You can do it. You’ve just got to try. You’ve imagined you’re a mutant from long ago, it should be easy to pretend you’re a Opreeeee fan.

    Maybe the problem is that the topic the site in question is titled for, isn’t the topic of discussion. Perhaps the opera people spend their time talking about how stupid non opera people are and how foolish they are for singing different songs. If someone ask them why they sing opera or some other undesirable question, and there’s no reasonable answer, they’re automatically branded a troll.

    Why do the keep doing that or trolling as you might say? Because the keep being told that there is an answer. But the answer never comes, only BS.

  38. Karl moaned,
    –“Your own rudeness (“You despicable dunghill” -what is your fascination with piles of cow excrement?) demanded a rude response. “–

    You started it, bozo, with your following comment on my blog:

    –“What ARE you doing back at FCS…

    Keep up the stupidity and you may find yourself banned from the entire internet. “–

  39. Karl says:

    So, this has degenerated into a “Well he started it!!!” argument… Aren’t you a little too old to be playing that game? So on the remote chance that an actual coherent discussion could developed, I have to ask, so what’ll it be today Larry? Drag out your baseless co-evolution talking points and *gasp* have them torn apart by actual scientific research yet again? Or perhaps back to the original topic of this post, show us how the main opposition to evolution (the creationists IDers, YECs) are not acting in the interest of their faith, and that the alternative “theories” they wish to present have no religious intonations whatsoever.

    *Bonus points for bringing Hitler/Holocaust into this argument cuz I sure as hell can think of a way right now…*

  40. Wolfhound says:

    Sorry, Brandon, for getting so het up. I knew Larry was a troll but I didn’t realize how vile a species he actually was and his particular asshattery (the kind NOT (yet) displayed at this blog) really riles me due to my personal interest. It’s why I found “Expelled” so repugnant beyond its basic BS.

    I will behave, I promise, and just ignore the odious troll.

  41. Green Earth says:

    Hey, OT (I was out of town) are we still trying for this or next weekend to meet up in Tampa/Brandon?

  42. firemancarl says:

    So, lemme get this straight. Because LArry was not taught evolution in high school, it didn’t happen. Right? Right. (Larry said so hisself in another thread). However, Larry states that the Holocaust that he doesn’t believe happened is the result of evolution which isn’t true because he wasn’t taught evolution in high school. Does that about sum it up?

  43. firemancarl says:

    I expect a full shed load of points now Wolfhound!

  44. Karl says:

    I just find it ironic that Hitler-worshiping holocaust denier such as Larry would go on to criticize evolution by attributing it as the cause of Hitler’s evil actions…

  45. firemancarl says:

    One last thing re Larry Busting

    from pahryngula
    I wonder how many of our Catholic friends have heard of the Fourth Lateran Council of 1215? This is the event where many of their important dogmas were codified, including the ideas of Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus, that the Eucharist was the sacrament that only properly ordained priests of the Catholic church could give, and that the Jews were a pariah people, who could hold no public office, had to pay a special Jew tax for their right to exist, and were required to wear special clothing to distinguish them from Christians. The yellow badge marking the Juden was not an invention of the Nazis, but a decree by faithful Catholics in the Middle Ages. That’s an interesting juxtaposition, that a symbol of Christian exceptionalism was formalized at the same time that they formally decreed the Jews to be inferior, and a target of hatred.

  46. Pierce R. Butler says:

    Uh, I came to this post in hopes of learning more about the hilarious hijinks of the Fla Fam Pol Council.

    Does anybody have anything to say about the purported topic here, or should we just declare that Far-gone Man has won this thread and move along?

Comments are closed.