Keep an eye on Collier County

A group of concerned citizens in Collier County, led by school board member Kelly Lichter, is taking on the self-appointed task of reviewing textbooks their school district uses. Here’s a news story about their efforts (be sure to watch the video). And here is their website (Southwest Florida Citizens’ Alliance). I don’t see anything directly related to science education in the story or on the group’s website, but there are a few references to initiatives and their topics of concern that have religious themes that could easily spill over into science education. It seems their main focus is on stopping common core and getting the federal government out of local government. It’s worth keeping an eye on them.

About Brandon Haught

Communications Director for Florida Citizens for Science.
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27 Responses to Keep an eye on Collier County

  1. Pierce R. Butler says:

    Sounds like these self-appointed vigilantes want Fox-Noise style “fair and balanced” textbooks, though the report works hard at presenting them, and itself, as “neutral”.

    Bonus point to the reporter for using the proper plural of “curriculum”, though!

  2. Chris says:

    This looks like a good thing. There is far more to be concerned about here than Darwin’s imagination. It appears this group is picking up on some of the stealth religious indoctrination poked in public school curriculum. It is said Common Core has a large amount of input from CAIR, The Council on American-Islamic Relations. The influence of preferenced Muslim religious doctrine inserted in text books has the ability to alter a lot of our society as we know it through upcoming generations.

    Most Americans and even many Muslims are unaware of Islamic ideology, methods and their religious mandate to rid the world of unbelivers through various forms of jihad. Right now, Turkish President Erdogan who is in the process of resurrecting the Ottoman Empire claims America was discovered by Muslims, not Columbus. And Obama’s propaganda tale that the beheadings, butchering of Christians, Jews and other infidels along with the Islamic State not being Islamic is in itself Islamic jihad. To appease so called local preferences one of the world’s largest publishers has removed the country Israel from it’s atlas for distribution in middle eastern schools.

    What is going on in our country and education system didn’t just start, but it is now becoming widely recognized. Hopefully more groups like this will pop up to sift out misinformation.

  3. Pierce R. Butler says:

    Chris – (sigh). It is said …

    C’mon, this schtick sounds like it came out of Glenn Beck or an imitator thereof.

    Please name and cite your sources!

    Turkish President Erdogan who is in the process of resurrecting the Ottoman Empire…

    I haven’t seen any evidence of Turkish troops expanding their territory, not even pushing into the power vacuum in Syria. So – what the hell do you mean by this?

    Hopefully more groups like this will pop up to sift out misinformation.

    The first step in this process would be: not spreading mis/disinformation in the first place. Please start!

  4. Chris says:

    I won’t bore you with too many facts, but here is a little youtube ‘it is said’ stuff.

    http://victoriajackson.com/12081/proof-common-core-preaches-islam-great-video

  5. Chris says:

    Pierce,

    “I haven’t seen any evidence of Turkish troops expanding their territory, not even pushing into the power vacuum in Syria. So – what the hell do you mean by this?” You might google Erdogan’s dream.

    Yusuf Qaradawi, the spiritual head of the Muslim Brotherhood of Egypt declared that: Turkey is the Caliphate State, and Istanbul is its capital … Turkey unites religion and the world, Arab (Wahhabist Sunnis) and Persian (Shiites), Asia and Africa, and it (the Caliphate) should be based upon this nation (Turkey)”.

    The Iranian Supreme Leader, Ali Khamenei, took the opportunity to thank the Turkish Muslims for their fight on behalf of Islam. Given the strength of this alliance combined with Saudi largesse and a changing picture in the Middle East, a global caliphate under shariah law could become a reality.

    http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2011/03/turkey_and_the_restoration_of.html

  6. Pierce R. Butler says:

    Chris – You run little danger of boring anybody “with the facts” so long as you rely on sources which systematically eschew facts.

    Fyi, FCS does not run this website as a forum for international political opinion. Such topics do come up in passing – note that the people trying to hijack Collier County’s curriculum do show all the signs of teabaggery, with an extra dash of libertarianism – but please don’t seize every miniscule opportunity to drift off into radio shock-jock territory unless you want Brandon to turn off commenting (again).

    Got anything to say about textbooks, or Collier County and the good citizens thereof?

  7. Chris says:

    Obviously there is a lot of considerations being expressed about Common Core. Certainly there are some good benefits. But there are some concerns that CC is little more than a ideological biased money making machine. Wile you don’t like oppositional questions or comments to anything secular, you’ve got to realize CC can facilitate genuine danger. Danger, which is something you don’t apparently see. “Let me control the textbooks and I will control the state.”- Adolf Hitler

  8. Pierce R. Butler says:

    Chris – bravo! You’re (sort of) on topic!

    Please consider that the “privatized education” movement is much more about money-making machinery than is the existing public school system.

    Also, please describe the “danger” of improving educational standards nationwide (besides a probable increase in homework…).

    I just spent a while trying to track down that purported Hitler quote, and couldn’t find anything which provided a source (or even an acknowledgement that this line paraphrases a well-known Jesuit slogan). Just about all web pages with that string of words come from homeschool/wingnut advocates, who have a well-earned reputation for scholastic sloppiness. Got a (reliable) citation?

  9. Chris says:

    Pierce-You don’t sound very knowledgeable about privatized education. Referring to K-12 I’m sure there might be some money makers out there somewhere.

    I would think the question should be, why does approximately 10% of the K-12 age population choose private and home schooling. Parents are stuck with paying thousands of dollars annually per child in addition to public school tax. Most private schools have crummy sports programs, require a large volunteer work force, marginal facilities, no lunch program, and on an on. Home schoolers are stuck with everything, And another question would be, what would that percentage be if parents weren’t strapped with all the cost and sacrifices required for their kids private education.

    If CC was improving educational standards there would be no one upset about it. But apparently that’s not the case. Home schooling rose sharply last year. You should be able to google the problems with common core on one of your progressive sites. Promoting religious humanism may not be a problem for you, but there are those who find it far beyond unacceptable. Naturally you wouldn’t see any danger there.

    As I previously mentioned the promotion of peaceful Islamic religious doctrine in the public school system is not just bull and stupid, it’s dangerous. The deception should outrage even you. Progressing down hill from humanism to Islam is not an improvement.

    Education is a powerful tool. Hitler knew it. The atheist John Dewey and Ayatollah Khomeini both knew it. And God knows it. Proverbs 22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go and when he is old he will not depart from it.

  10. Pierce R. Butler says:

    Chris –

    I know enough about “privatized” (read: corporatized) education to know that numerous fast-buck artists have already moved into (and some, out of) the school biz, with lots of money vanishing along the way. A 2012-13 study found that students participating in the Milwaukee Parental Choice Program scored “proficient” or “advanced” on standardized tests at lower rates than their public school counterparts. … Similar findings have been reported from earlier Wisconsin studies and other jurisdictions that have implemented voucher plans, including Cleveland and Washington, D.C.

    … why does approximately 10% of the K-12 age population choose private and home schooling.

    So they can teach their kids how not to punctuate simple sentences?

    Home schooling rose sharply last year.

    Also last year, majorities of voters supported a slew of nasty and stupid politicians and bought tickets for a lot of dumb movies. In other words, we have multiple reasons to continue to reject as logical fallacies arguments from popular appeal.

    Promoting religious humanism …

    It always amuses me that believers think they have a successful argument in calling science a religion. When I want a higher intellectual level of entertainment, a Three Stooges pie fight does the trick.

    … the promotion of peaceful Islamic religious doctrine in the public school system …

    You usually switch topics when you realize you’re losing the argument on the subject at hand – congratulations on figuring that out so quickly this time.

    Hitler knew it.

    Which reminds me – have you yet found any citation to the alleged quotation from ol’ Adolf you cited above, one which doesn’t come directly out of a 3rd-rate wingnut blog?

  11. Chris says:

    Pierce,

    I don’t see where the AMERICANS UNITED FOR SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE says anything on your “privatized education” money-making machine. Nor do I see where AMERICANS UNITED has exerted the same seemingly antichrist fortitude when confronted with the new pro-Islamic propaganda in CC. Hopefully they can recognize a Trojan Horse.

    You’re right, corporatized eduction does have a fast-buck crowd. It’s all about the money. I knew Bill Gates would cash in on Common Core, but I had no idea this monopoly was stacked so tight. Having suckered a lot educators and bribed the states with grants, CC promoters should be congratulated for a job well done. Now Gates and Pearson can dig much deeper into the government’s 500 billion dollar educational jackpot. CC is a real money making machine.

    http://blog.heartland.org/2014/11/gates-and-pearson-partner-to-reap-tens-of-millions-from-common-core/

    I doubt you find this Hitler quote on the ACLU or the Communist Party USA sites. Here’s another to ponder, “Give me your four year olds, and in a generation I will build a socialist state.” Vladimir Lenin

  12. Pierce R. Butler says:

    Chris – There’s a lot you don’t see.

    Americans United, per its wikipage, claims about 75,000 members and a budget of less than $7 million (2007). That’s a flea on the elephant of the billion-plus dollar homeschool paraphernalia market, which includes members of the Walton & Bush dynasties as well as hard-driving fundamentalists.

    … the new pro-Islamic propaganda in CC.

    Such as saying Muslims aren’t all mad bombers out to molest your mama?

    I knew Bill Gates would cash in on Common Core…

    Yet another citation needed. heartland.org is, if anything, less reliable a source than victoriajackson.com – at least she hasn’t, to my knowledge, spent millions on denying tobacco-smoking causes health problems.

    I doubt you find this Hitler quote on the ACLU or the Communist Party USA sites.

    Uh, Chris, when looking for quotations, you might do better by looking on, y’know, quotation sites.

    A general-purpose search engine search turns up only a couple of citations (both from small-name teabagger pages) before haring off after fragments of that word string. Snopes doesn’t have it at all. I’m afraid, unless you can produce a serious source for that, we’ll all have to conclude that poor Chris has been snookered once again.

    In any case, similar sentiments have been expressed by factions from across the spectrum, and to some extent they’re all true. Kids are, mostly, impressionable, and it behooves us to give them good educations, including good science and good critical thinking.

  13. Chris says:

    Pierce-There’s a lot you don’t see.

    … the new pro-Islamic propaganda in CC

    “Such as saying Muslims aren’t all mad bombers out to molest your mama?”

    Exactly. When in reality the religion’s goal is world domination through various forms of jihad. In which case blowing up or beheading your mama could be the right thing to do for the Islamic Allah. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWEYyyzykbU

    There are many reasons to reject a national curriculum like CC, but the insertion of Islamic religious doctrine is the most disturbing to people who know who Allah is not. Make no mistake, the Islamic Allah or God in not the God of the Bible. Even though there are a number of names and events which are twisted from the Old and New Testament, the religion is in no way compatible with the Bible. What is interesting to me is that some sects of Islam believe their long sought after Mahdi (redeemer of Islam) is the antichrist in the book of Revelation. They could be right.

    Hitler’s quote is all over the place, why don’t you email Snopes and find out why they don’t know about it.

  14. Pierce R. Butler says:

    Chris – You’d rather perpetuate hateful and factually wrong stereotyping than teach kids something about understanding the core beliefs of more than a billion people? As if the centuries when Muslims and Christians have lived in peace across much of the world never happened, and Mutually Assured Genocide of the 1/7th by the 2/7 (or maybe just the 5%) is our only option?

    I certainly hope you’re not responsible for the upbringing of any child while in that state of mind.

    … in reality the religion’s goal is world domination …

    For a very extended value of “reality”, including the infinite-worlds hypothesis.

    Though of course we must now consider Christian Reconstructionism and Dominionism, and the “Great Commission” idea, and even the presence of Christian missionaries and chaplains alongside every European invasion of the rest of the world over the last five centuries.

    What do you think about those things, Chris?

    Since this conversation started several days ago, perhaps you’ve forgotten that I already described the (puny) results of my search for the purported Hitler and Lenin quotations you’ve tried to foist on us. You made the claims: why can’t you back them up?

  15. Chris says:

    Pierce,

    It would appear you have no idea of the core beliefs of this particular billion plus people. It’s not hate we are talking about, it’s history.

    I not sure what the 1/7, 2/7, or 5% is all about.

    I don’t think you have to much to worry about presently with the so called Christian Reconstructionism. I’m sure there is a few wacko’s out there, but it’s difficult to tell if your information is not tainted with atheist bias or true. Perhaps the Hitler quote may have been created with bias or to discredit people reading quotes, I concede, it’s not all over the place.

    It appears the Great Commission to spread the gospel all over the world may have already taken place. It’s a free will thing, you don’t have to accept the payment offered in the bible for your sins. You can simply pay for them yourself, that’s the deal. Chances are you won’t murdered by Christians for you choice either way.

    While on the subject could you give me a relatively comparable list of beheadings done by Christians to non believers or for punishment within the last year or so, in comparison to Muslims. Also, you might through in kidnappings and mass murders to the list.

  16. Pierce R. Butler says:

    Chris – It would appear you have no idea of the core beliefs of this particular billion plus people.

    So it would appear to someone whose understanding of said “core beliefs” comes from False Noise and its fellow-travelers. Me, I’ve traveled in Muslim nations from Afghanistan to Egypt, know several Muslims personally, and have read up on both the belief system and its history – and I’m here to tell ya, “Islam” is many things seen many different ways. Most of the believers just want to get on with their families, jobs, and lives. Perhaps if you’d taken a world-level social studies Common Core class you’d grasp that better.

    I not sure what the 1/7, 2/7, or 5% is all about.

    I tell you, then: 1/7 = approximate ratio of Muslims to world population; 2/7 = approx ratio of Christians ditto; 5%, same for USAnians.

    I don’t think you have to much to worry about presently with the so called Christian Reconstructionism.

    They’re a small fraction of the believers – but well organized and -funded. And lots of other, less explicitly extreme Christian leaders use their ideological framework – see Robertson, Dobson, et alia.

    Back to the previous point: we have a small and bloody-minded faction of extremists within Christianity explicitly set on world domination, supplied with all sorts of Biblical “justifications” – why then should anyone feel less alarmed about Christianity than about Islam?

    Perhaps the Hitler quote may have been created with bias or to discredit people reading quotes, I concede…

    Every once in a while I suspect there may be hope for you yet!

    And as for the beheading stats, I’m sorry that we don’t even have a decent rough count of the overall casualties from US bombings and bullets in Afghanistan and Iraq, or of the drone fatalities from those countries and Pakistan, Yemen, etc – never mind a listing of how many heads were detached from bodies in racking up those deaths. Even the lowest estimates, however, go into the hundreds of thousands. Boko Haram and the “Caliph” can only dream of such rivers of blood.

  17. Chris says:

    Pierce-You’re delusional. You have no list?

  18. Pierce R. Butler says:

    Chris – Huh?

    The gratuitous insult aside, what the French are you talking about?

    In case it concerns the uncounted mountain of US-caused “Global War on Terror”™ corpses, please bring yourself up to speed on the Iraq side of that question with these blog posts.

    And here’s a heartwarming analysis of our body count in Afghanistan.

    If only this sort of fact could make it in US classrooms – I doubt Common Core touches on any of it, since so many in this country prefer that we teach only vicious stereotypes about “Them” and saintly lies about “Us”.

  19. Chris says:

    Pierce,

    Delusional in not an, insult it’s an observation.

    The Koran mandates the conversion or killing all non-believers. Specifically Christians and Jews. Islam is a religion of conquest, not peace. Muslims were murdering in the name of Allah before there were drones, before Columbus, long before the Crusades. It’s what they do. Obama and his crew may have sparked some of the present violence but he, didn’t create the religion. http://www.wvinter.net/~haught/Koran.html

    Boko Haram is a drop in the bucket. Turkey may put it all together.
    http://shoebat.com/2015/01/20/many-reasons-erdogan-reviving-ottoman-empire-coming-caliphate/

  20. Pierce R. Butler says:

    Chris – Can’t you at least make a token allusion to the topic of education in Florida, other than by demonstrating by your own case the desperate need for improvement across the board?

    Citing the Koran as evidence of modern Muslims’ thinking works about as well as citing the Bible to illustrate the motives of present-day Christians and Jews – scary, but not very accurate as a guide to actual behavior.

    And c’mon – citing a notorious fraud like Walid Shoebat only shows your own acute deficiencies of solid information and critical thinking. Learn to sort out wheat from chaff, if you can pardon me for using a metaphor from a book of ancient tribal lore.

  21. Chris says:

    Pierce-My o my, you are delusional.

    CC’s inclusion of Islam has been my point from the beginning. If Islam is to be included in public school textbooks as a peaceful religion or a reasonable choice, anyone with a fraction of a brain cell should demand it’s removal.

    Here’s one of Islam’s loving preachers. You’ll have to read this. Unfortunately YouTube claims they have removed this video because of hate speech. Imagine that. I suppose YouTube should talk to you for clarification that this and the other tens of thousands of such messages are simply not Islamic and are photoshop propaganda.

    http://unitedwithisrael.org/i-say-to-the-
    jews-the-time-for-your-slaughter-has-come-says-palestinian-preacher/?ios_app=true

  22. Pierce R. Butler says:

    Chris – CC’s inclusion of Islam has been my point from the beginning.

    You first objected to it being portrayed in any way other than in hostility, now you object to its inclusion at all?

    If Islam is to be included in public school textbooks as a peaceful religion or a reasonable choice, anyone with a fraction of a brain cell should demand it’s removal.

    Name me any religion whatsoever with an entirely peaceful history. You give one example of an imam (or mullah, or self-appointed loudmouth) calling on either his god or his compatriots to slaughter Jews; I could give examples beyond counting of his fellow Abrahamists demanding the same for other Abrahamists. Why don’t we extirpate all mention of all religious people from all the textbooks? That would certainly make the curriculum and the tests soooo much shorter!

  23. Chris says:

    Pierce,

    “You first objected to it being portrayed in any way other than in hostility, now you object to its inclusion at all?” Wrong. No hate here, just a history of Islam’s followers doing exactly what the religion mandates. If Islam is to be taught it should be taught in it’s entirety, not just the passive parts.

    “Name me any religion whatsoever with an entirely peaceful history.” I doubt there is one.

    “You give one example of an imam (or mullah, or self-appointed loudmouth) calling on either his god or his compatriots to slaughter Jews; I could give examples beyond counting of his fellow Abrahamists demanding the same for other Abrahamists.” Absolutely, the number of faithful Muslims crying out for the slaughter of Jews and all non-believers is presently well documented into the tens of millions. The Koran calls those Muslims who don’t join the slaughter of non-believers, hypocrites, and warns Allah will send them to Hell. Look’s like Obama is in big trouble. CC’s portrayal of Islam as a peaceful religion is beyond disingenuous.

    Name me any other religious non-Muslim Abrahamists who are PRESENTLY murdering thousands of people for their god, kidnapping, owning and selling slaves, chopping of the heads of men, women and children, burning people alive, crucifying non-believers, mutilating female genitalia, throwing acid in peoples faces, calling for global domination, just to name a few characteristics.

  24. Pierce R. Butler says:

    Chris – by your own (dubiously informed) count, the number of committed-to-violence Muslims comes to about 1% of the total.

    Meanwhile, please compare the jihad body over the last few decades to that from US military operations. You can even, if you like, compare it to the body count from Muslim-on-nonMuslim violence from the few decades previously – i.e., before Carter and Reagan stirred up the “pan-Islamic” jihad fever in their own short-sighted gambit to “give the Soviets their own Vietnam” in Afghanistan.

    Clearly, all the world’s textbooks ought to tell students that Americans are all violently bloodthirsty, and imply that humanity has no other option but genocide to contain the US menace. Right?

  25. Chris says:

    Pierce-You are a riot. I like that one percent deal. With atrocities committed by Islamists not being Islamic it would be difficult to even hit that one percent mark.

    For example both Fort Hood and the poor woman in Oklahoma who had her head chopped off by a Muslim shouting Allahu Akbar were both only workplace violence, not Islamic terror. Funny how these Muslims nuts just happen to be carrying out the dictates of the Quran and are not Islamic.

    I think you’ll find that in many Islamic countries the textbooks already contain descriptions of the atrocities committed by the great Satan, America. And the little Satan Israel, who shoots back when shot at. Shooting back is immoral, depraved and sinful.

    If the so called radical Muslims are not Islamic, are the peaceful Muslims Islamic?

    The question is do you think CC should favor Islam, (the religion of peace) over other religions in public school textbooks?

  26. Pierce R. Butler says:

    Chris – You’re doing (somewhat) better by citing sources more – even if you still have problems finding good ones – but you haven’t improved at all in terms of responding to points made.

    Please note: I’ve tried to get you to look at the negative sides of some Christians/Americans as a way of showing you how they see us, but you have yet to connect those dots, or even acknowledge they exist.

    Why don’t you produce some actual evidence that “CC … favor[s] Islam… over other religions” – something from a source not terminally addicted to triple-brewed tea?

  27. Chris says:

    Pierce- The tea party claims their core beliefs are the following. “1. Illegal aliens are here illegally. 2. Pro-domestic employment is indispensable. 3. A strong military is essential. 4. Special interests must be eliminated. 5. Gun ownership is sacred. 6. Government must be downsized. 7. The national budget must be balanced. 8. Deficit spending must end. 9. Bailout and stimulus plans are illegal. 10. Reducing personal income taxes is a must. 11. Reducing business income taxes is mandatory. 12. Political offices must be available to average citizens. 13. Intrusive government must be stopped. 14. English as our core language is required. 15. Traditional family values are encouraged.” I understand that most if not all of this tea party doctrine is detestable to you and most everyone else who hell bent on fundamentally changing America to third world status. Our presently sitting dictator is doing all he can to fulfill that dream. But I personally don’t see where a weak and defenseless people overly oppressed by the gov ernment, man on man sex or the forced indoctrination of a biased religious or secular beliefs can stand as viable foundational building blocks for a long enduring successful nation.

    Wile you’re pretending Islam is not Islam the faithful are busy doing what they’ve done in every country they’ve come to dominate. The Muslim Brotherhood or the U. S.Council of Muslim Organizations is building it’s own political party in the US. Soon you may be able to vote for the jihadist of your choice.

    Trying to place blame on America or Christianity for the atrocities mandated within the holy book of Islam is ridiculous. Muslims were murdering innocent people for the faith long before America was a pipe dream. Killing anyone who does’t fit or change into Islam’s belief is the interpretation of million of faifull, not just a few. Sure not all Muslims are bad people. But based on the religion itself, can you tell me what a good Muslim or a bad Muslim is?

    Connecting the dots leads right back where they came from. You’ll have to use imaginary dots to make any other connection.

    Back to CC. The people you want to confirm, condemn or condone the religious indoctrination of Islam in public school curriculum appear to be zombies or don’t have a problem with it. You may have to settle for someone who has stued the issue and really knows what they’re talking about. Or you might have to put that highly evolved ape like creature brain of yours to work on google.

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